Williamsburg, Satmar and Me
Apparently so many of you are of the opinion that they know precisely what it is that makes Williamsburg tick. The only problem with your assumptions is that they are so very wrong. Simply stated: Williamsburg is not one entity with a set of rules - - but rather it is a group of people with a somewhat similar ideology and lifestyle. Those that choose to live here have the option of living their lives in a manner that will fit anywhere on the spectrum. The two ends of said spectrum are radically different, just like any other Jewish community, be it Lakewood, Bnei Brak or even Tosh. All these communities have preliminary ‘rules’ – but they are not necessarily binding.
There has been a remark by one commenter that he saw registration forms for the local yeshivas, and if anyone were to be found with the internet then the children would subsequently be expelled. Every yeshiva from Torah V’daas to Torah Temima has registration forms where they clearly state that children from homes that have a TV will not be accepted – yet any survey will reveal that this rule is not necessarily abided by. And no one would accuse a Flatbush resident with TV of being ‘not typical’. These guidelines are just in place to portray the ideology the leaders want for their ‘community'. As a rule, leaders tend to be more to the ‘right’ than the rest of the members.
In addition, we all choose to belong to a group and to leaders that best fit the lifestyle we want. Some prefer leaders that are more liberal than themselves – so this way they can allow themselves to lighten up, and no longer worry about the conscience that has been holding them back. While at the same time, many prefer aligning with leaders that are somewhat more old school and follow more strictly the letter of the law – this way they know that regardless of where temptations in life may lead them, they will always come back – and always belong.
And now for a historical perspective on Williamsburg and her residents:
Williamsburg was initially formed by a chasidish group mostly originating from Hungarian and Romanian communities. Being that the initial towns no longer existed, and most of the members unfortunately perished, this new group consisted of handfuls of different Jews from different towns. Yet the common denominator amongst them all was that they were of similar principles. Be it their focus on tznius, on Torah-learning, or simply their desire to once again live a Yiddish speaking – chaseedish life. They all lost and left a life behind, but still had the hopes and dreams of recreating something that can – if not replace, then at least restore – their heimish home.
The members of this ‘conglomerate’ were from many different walks of chasidish life. Even amongst the rabbonim, as frum as they all were – there were those that were more liberal, while some were more moderate, while others still were die-hard traditionalists. So while the rabbonim placed in position of authority were perhaps more extreme in their beliefs, most of these rabbonim were understanding of the fact that their followers might not be exactly of the same mind – even though they held their rebbes in highest esteem.
Satmar Rebbe Zatz”l especially – as much as he was known for his very outspoken and uncompromising approach towards anything and everything that he deemed unhalachic, when it came to an issue that was simply regarding ‘frumkeit’ his position was entirely different.
Examples that come to mind:
• While CRC / Hisachdus was banning TV with an official ‘issur’, lots of rabbonim were also advocating to include in the ban radio and newspapers. But the Rebbe would not go for it.
• While the Kasho Rav Zatz”l was loudly objecting to girl working in an office environment, the Rebbe was not only not against it, but he even encouraged it – as long as the parents had confirm the acceptability of the place.
• As much as the Rebbe himself was a big Gaon and Talmud chochom and encouraged and valued Torah-learning, unlike other kehillos that rushed into opening kollelim for their freshly-married yungerleit, he actually recommended that they go out in the world and earn a living.
Being that he was a responsible, compassionate and true leader – he understood that by going to the extreme he will alienated a large number of this newly established community. Therefore he gave them the opportunity to live their lives and be accepted as who they truly were, as long as the basic criteria was met. It was on these standards that Williamsburg in general and Satmar in particular were developed.
So while the lifestyle Begreatfull describes, does unfortunately exist – it is by far not the typical. As for me? My family would be considered ‘average Williamsburg’ – and amongst my family I am just ‘one-of-them’, and in no way do I stand out. Nor do I ever intend to.
After five generations, our community has evolved quite a bit, and yet an entire spectrum of very different families still comfortably co-exists. Even though they greatly vary in their ideas and subsequent lifestyles, they nonetheless share their core common beliefs.
As a radiant rainbow ought to be - - each color drastically different, yet blending together so artistically.
P.S. While I know that I have quite adequately covered this issue, I don’t doubt that there will be differences of opinion. Hey, it’s comment that give blogs their color.
25 Comments:
It seems weird that the Grand Rabbi himself was so against draconian chumros, but his followers of today have become the epitome of "farfrumt".
Human - you couldn't be more right with "...that was the whole purpose of the bal shem tov starting chassidus in the first place." This issue regarding fearing Hashem vs. loving Him is one I have been complaining about for a while.
It really irks me the way kids finish Krias Shma with the line 'Vloy yira - eech hub nisht moire fin keinem nisht, nor fin dee heilige bashefer alein.' [I fear no one, only our holy God]. A three year old daughter of a friend of mine came crawling into her mother's bed one night, crying about a nightmare. When her mother asked her what was bothering her, with eyes wide open and full of obvious fear she replied 'Eech hub moira fin dee heilige bashefer'. She’s got no idea what that ‘thing’ is – but she was taught from infancy that it was something to be feared.
If kids are raised with fear, they will do everything in their power to 'outgrow it'. No one - no child nor adult - wants to outgrow love.
For my own daughter I changed the line - 'Hashem lee - der eibishter is mit meer, Vloy yira - in eech hub nisht moira fin keinem nisht. Veil dee heilige bashefer hut meech leeb.' [God is with me, and I fear no one - because God loves me.]
As for Trued - I kinda disagree with you. Your parents might belong to Satmar - but at this point the choice of chasiddus and locale is entirely up to your spouse and yourself. As for living in Williamsburg - well I do. And it is definitely my lifestyle.
Final note to all my dear commenters who are relatively new to the English language (or who occasionally might err, like all humans do) the word 'definitely' is vastly different from 'defiantly'. Spell check can't help much there...
“its goes automatically these days, your in the group your parents choose..”
The argument has little to do with Chasidism, Satmarism and Williamsburgism more than it does with Judaism in general or any religion, for that matter. People mostly belong to a religion they were raised with, but not what they chose.
Although I’m not an historian, I’d guess that this was true ever since religion existed; the bible story of Abraham’s struggle to depart from his parents and community’s beliefs is just an historical example.
“there are so many teens at risk… there are so many unhappy chassidish people.”
I’m unfamiliar with the statistics. Are the number of ‘teens at risk’ and ‘unhappy people’ greater amongst the Chasidim than it is in secular communities? Or is it less? Or just about the same?
By establishing these facts, we can more easily identify whether these cases are directly linked to the teens’ and people’s communities and are not a part of a widespread trend found in every part of society. Until the reason for the unhappiness is clear, it would make sense to group them as “unhappy people” instead of “unhappy chassidish people”.
“we have to pretend that this is our lifestyle.”
I had already pointed out on his blog that while it's true that many do things that they don't truly believe in, because of what their neighbor may say, you have to realize that the need to fit in and the fear of public opinion is as old as civilized society itself. It’s called peer pressure.
So, I guess my point is that I have yet to see a claim distinctively customized to Chasidim, Satmar and Wiliamsubrg! Not that they aren’t legitimate charges; they just need to be discussed in a broader context, in order to appear objective.
Sheitel-I gave up on your promise to write about further education for women.... And so I attempted to do it myself...
Let me know if you approve and what I left out....
“yes, the percentage of teens at risk and unhappy people in the chassidish circles is very large, much larger than it used to be.”
I wasn’t looking for statistics on the state of Chasidic teens today in comparison to what it had been in the past, although even on that I got an opinion of a single well respected individual, but no statistic.
I’m looking for the percentage of unhappy people amongst Chasidim compared to not Chasidim.
I guess if it’s not available than I’ll stay in the dark on this one.
Neither.
But I have to make you aware that this isn’t an easy task. I admire you for your courageous undertaking… sampling is not easy. lol
If one is to claim that amongst Chasidim more Prozac is being consumed as it is amongst non Chasidim, for argument sake, that would mean that for every ten Chasidim five are depressed. Then you would inquire into ten non-Chasidim and find that only one was depressed, that yields you the ratio.
The results: 50% Chasidim are unhappy, whereas only 10% non-Chasidim were found to be unhappy!
Now go ahead. I volunteer to participate in the study…
I don’t understand what you’re saying. I really don’t.
Let’s talk Math for a moment.
Your second scenario takes 5 Chasidim and compares them with a 1 Million non-Chasidim. It's not clear whether or not with five Chasidim and/or the 1 Million non-Chasidim you mean unhappy ones. In any case I don’t know why one should make such a calculation. What I’m saying is, randomly pick 10 of each side and see how many out of 10, on both sides, are or aren’t happy.
Simple!
That IS, BTW, comparing apples to apples. Oh ye, figuratively speaking.
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interest:
Good point. It’s hard to comment, though, on something I don’t live with but have to use imagination.
human:
I’m not the one comparing. I was just responding to those suggesting that the so called lack of freedom within our communities results into even more discontented people. In other words, in addition to the common and natural causes for disappointment found in every community, Chasidim have the restrictive element to ad even more cases of unhappy folks. So, in essence THEY were comparing Chasidim to the rest of society.
My point is: That would be a possible reason, if and when a scientific study would document that Chasidim indeed have a greater number of unhappy people.
Now I have to leave office and enjoy my content family members who are eagerly waiting for me to join them.
"I’m unfamiliar with the statistics. Are the number of ‘teens at risk’ greater amongst the Chasidim than it is in secular communities? Or is it less? Or just about the same?"
What sort of argument/ comparison is this?
What kind of measures have the secular or even MO communities taken to prevent their children from becoming 'at risk'?
How insular and isolated are they brought up in comparison to the chasidishe child?
How much do we give up in the hopes of our children staying on the straight and narrow?
Are they protected from reading the Country Yossi mag or listening to WABC?
"the overall rate of divorce is much lower in the ultra orthodox world than it is in the secular world at large, but I think that this statistic holds true to any religion, not only judaism'.
Again, this does not prove that couples are happier and marriages more successful in the Chasidic world.
There is way more stigma associated with divorce in our community than it is elsewhere. larger families are a factor here as well.
"Are the number of unhappy people’ greater amongst the Chasidim than it is in secular communities"
I wouldn't say so. Happiness is a very broad construct that is determined by so many different factors. I'm sure that you will find plenty happy Muslim fundamentalists, Cannibals, and Hare Krishnes. (No JK, I am not comparing Chasidus with Cannibalism).
I wouldn't go as far as saying that Chasidim are unhappy in comparison to the rest of society. What I will say though in no uncertain terms,is that the Chasidishe lifestyle today is by no means the facilitator of individualism, emotional, academic, or cognitive potential.
I only found your blog now, I only read your last post, and I think it is very well put.
If everyone would agree, I dont think there would be alot of issues like the"eiruv etc.
Unfortunatly it is being dominated.
Begreatful - thank you for your very lengthy comment. I recognize the fact that it must've taken quite some time and effort to write. I do feel bad though, because I am not really understanding what you are trying to say.
The fact that the colors of the rainbow do NOT bleed into each other - but rather remain separate is actually what gives the rainbow its beauty. - - How that would tie into people having TVs behind their clothes, is beyond me.
I don't understand either why you would object to people deciding that they like to live life as a part of a group. Any group. While we all need to know who we are individually, life can be very lonely if we choose to live without some sort of community. Wouldn't you agree?
In regard to the disgusting behavior your mentioned, remember that people in every society might do wrong things. But to belong, and still be a part of the community they need to conform on some level, and abide by BASIC COMMUNITY STANDARDS. Inappropriate behavior will automatically shut them out.
Keep those long comments coming - but next time try to solidify at least one point. Please.
"This is the reason we see all those filthy nevueu riche chasidim who run all over world for 'proste' vecationing."
You mean like vacationing in Vegas (aka Sin City)?
Wow, Intense. Intense.
I won't take sides here, I Will simpley say this: BG has gone thru Alot in her life, Please Do not Underestimate her.
If not for her me and many of my freinds would still be on the streets, If not for her there would be many people in need Inthis community.
The fact that she has lived thru so much, And has gone from A to Z without to much outside help is what Inspires us most.
She is moving on, Trust me, By Moving on I mean not just Recharging her life, But Recreating it.
I say we should all Support her rather then shun her and be disgraceful.
Still choosing:
What are you choosing between? Judging by your comments, I'd say you're still choosing whether to be a jackass or a human being, and based on your comments, the donkey tribe will soon be welcoming another member.
Still Chosing,
What are your choices?
Prozac or Zoloft?
I don't think an Antidepressant will work for you.
You're not depressed.
You're psychotic
Oh, God, I can't get over this guy. Choose, don't choose, whatever. But for the love of Willy, will you shut up already?
No Mr. "stillchoosing" I will not elaborate.
But, If you were to know what she has done, and whom she has helped, I guerantee you would get on your knees and beg her for forgiveness.
Question:
Is the Kasho Rav Rav shaul Brach?
Where can I get info about the rav?
Who are you kidding, KCJ. All the MO communities I visited have their social conventions and sociological moors that are just as rigidly enforced , in albeit a more subtle way. If you violate them, you are merely snubbed and avoided.
If anything the Hareidi communities are more straight up and fly about what the rules are going in.
Lots of anger lots of debates lots of comments lots of opinions.
I really was not aware up to now, how colorful willi really is.
SO I guess Sheitel, you were damn right.
SG:
What MO conventions and mores do you mean?
Basically, in many MO circles, particularly in the NY area, there is an atitude of "if you are one degree more religious then me you are a fanatic, if you are one degree less religious you are a heretic".
Also, to be fair, and this is only my personal experience, but if you go to Monroe, New Square, Tush, etc.., (siz alla mol a plotz) there is always room for one more guest to eat , sleep, whatever.. Whereas, in Cleveland, Chicago, St Louis, especially in the Young Israel circles, if you didn't arrange for 'hospitality' way, way in advance, you are out of luck..
In Lakewood, more Tzodoka is raised in one night by a Mesholach, than in a week in Teaneck, even though there is much more money in Teaneck.
At the end of the day, there are many not nice, inappropriate things going on in Hareidi communities, and I am the first to complain about them. However, the MOs like to shoot their mouth off , about how great they are, but at the end it is just "Arba Meos Kesef, Ovair LoSohair".....
A lot of talk, but very little else..
If you don't believe me, just show up in Lincoln Sq Synagogue in NYc, or the White Shul in Far Rockaway, by Kabbalas Shabbos and see how many ppl come over to invite you to stay by them.
Very interesting!
It all seems idealistic enough. The thing the ghetto style community never considered was the changing of the times... there are so many situations now that need addressing and it all seems to be swept under the carpet. Rules need to change in order to go forward, but putting more and more gedarim is not always the answer. The problem also lies in people so afraid of change because all they know is what they cling to combined with intolerance.
Thanks for the history.
Hi All,
I just stumbled on this blog, and was very surprised reading this article.
The author paints Williamsburg and Satmar as an idyllic, beautiful and perfectly balanced society, where all are free to chose and speak their minds, and their greatest problem is indeed whether to sit down and learn a blatt gemore or to go out and do volunteed chessed at the local hospital.
The author sounds as if she chose to be Satmar, and that she is totally free to have a TV and internet at home, as well as openly going to the movies and Las Vegas. I might be naïve or ignorant of the subject, but judging of the many hundreds of Hassidim I see every day, the good hundred or so that I personally know and the many thousands that I have met during my life, give a totally different impression. Personally, most of them were nice, ordinary people. But they were by and large ignorant, not only on secular subjects but about Jewish law as well. But as soon as little as a hint at a fault with their minhogin, ideology or Rebbe was raised, they were either going berserk or just have a motion of the hand as if to say “Wos fershteist du, bist doch a goy”. Would you deny most men in KJ, WB, Skwer an Tosh barely speak or write English?
It is a well-known fact that most Hassidic communities live off social services, in other words, out of my paycheck. Living in a house written on totty or schver’s name and paying it off with sec.8, fraudulently acquiring welfare checks, food stamps, WIC and every other imaginable service, and buying the authorities’ silence with votes are de-rigueur in all Hassidic shtetls, and in many Yeshivish shtetls as well.
Your TV and internet are not tolerated in your community – it is just another blatant example of people laughing at the rules, just as they laugh at the prohibition to steal, cheat, embezzle, swindle and create Chilul Hashem. I don’t think that thousands of wild Hassidic savages attacking a police officer go well with your picturesque description of Williamsburg.
Just a thought – imagine your husband would decide that wearing a $3000 shtreimel while other people starve isn’t ethical. So he takes it off and walks into shul with a hat on Shabbos. You can bet that your car’s tires would be slashed, your kids beaten up in “school”, and probably far worse. But the people about whom everyone knows that they burn down their business for insurance, spend their time and money in casinos and houses of ill repute – often on shabbos – are considered “sheine yidden”.
If WB is takeh azoy a gan eiden, why are you writing under anonymity? You don’t even give an anonymous email. Are you afraid of something?
I believe it’s time for all yidden to stand up against this separatist abomination, unite, and clean our act. We are all areiveim –warrants- to each other, and ultimately we will have to pay the price for all our crimes – as well as for those of our fathers. Wake up, folks.
Sincerely,
The Anti-Semite .
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